Ted英语演讲稿：HowIheldmybreathfor17mnutes如何憋气17

Ted英语演讲稿：HowIheldmybreathfor17mnutes如何憋气Asamagician,Itrytocreateimagesthatmakepeopleandthink.Ialsotrytochallengemyselftodothingsthatdoctorssayarenotpossible.IwasburiedaliveinNewYorkCityinacoffin,buriedaliveinacoffininApril,1999,foraweek.Ilivedtherewithnothingbutwater.AnditendedupbeingsomuchfunthatIdecidedIcouldpursuedoingmoreofthesethings.ThenextoneisIfrozemyselfinablockoficeforthreedaysandthreenightsinNewYorkCity.ThatonewaswaymoredifficultthanIhadexpected.Theoneafterthat,Istoodontopofahundredfootpillarfor36hours.Ibegantohallucinatesohardthatthebuildingsthatwerebehindmestartedtolooklikebiganimalheads. 作为一个魔术师，我总是尝试去创造一个现象可以让人们驻足思考。我也试着挑战自己做一些医生看来不可能的事情。我曾于1999年4月，被埋在纽约一口棺材里整整一个星期。着一个礼拜仅靠水存活下来。但结果是我从中获得极大的乐趣。于是我决定去追求实现更多这样的事。下一次就是我把自己冻在一个大冰块里整整三天三夜，地点是纽约。那次要比我想象的困难许多。接下来的一次，我站在一百多英尺高的柱子顶端整整36个小时。快结束时我开始产生非常强烈的幻觉以至于我觉得身后的建筑看 So,nextIwenttoLondon.InLondonIlivedinaglassboxfor44dayswithnothingbutwater.Itwas,forme,oneofthemostdifficultthingsI'deverdone,butitwasalsothemostbeautiful.Therewassomanyskeptics,especiallythepressinLondon,thattheystartedflyingcheeseburgersonhelicoptersaroundmyboxtotemptme.(Laughter)So,IfeltveryvalidatedwhentheNewEnglandJournalofMedicineactuallyusedtheresearchforscience.后来，我去了伦敦。在伦敦，我在一个玻璃箱里生存了44天也是除了水什么都没有。对于我来说，这次是所有挑战中最艰难的一次，但它仍然是非常美好的一次历程。当时有许多持怀疑态度的人，尤其是伦敦的记者们，他们坐直升机徘徊在我的玻璃箱周围到处扔汉堡引诱我。(笑声)我通过这次活动被认可而感到非常高兴，事实上新英格兰医学杂志 MynextpursuitwasIwantedtoseehowlongIcouldgowithoutbreathing,likehowlongIcouldsurvivewithnothing,notevenair.Ididn'trealizethatitwouldbecomethemostamazingjourneyofmylife. 追求便是想试试不呼吸能坚持多久，也就是说什么都没有的情况下我能活多久，甚至没有空气。我并没有意识到，这一次成就了我生命中最 AsayoungmagicianIwasobsessedwithHoudiniandhisunderwaterchallenges.So,Ibegan,earlyon,competingagainsttheotherkids,seeinghowlongIcouldstayunderwaterwhiletheywentupanddowntobreathe,youknow,fivetimes,whileIstayedunderononebreath.BythetimeIwasateenagerIwasabletoholdmybreathforthreeminutesand30seconds.IwouldlaterfindoutthatwasHoudini'spersonalrecord. 一个年轻的魔术师我沉迷于霍迪尼和他在水下屏气挑战。孩童时候，我就开始与其他的孩子们比试，看可以在水下待多久，当他们得反复探头出水面呼吸，大概5次之多，我却可以一直待在水下，完全不需要换气。。当我是青少年的时候我已经可以水下屏气达3分30秒之久，后来 In1987Iheardofastoryaboutaboythatfellthroughiceandwastrappedunderariver.Hewasunderneath,notbreathingfor45minutes.Whentherescueworkerscametheyresuscitatedhimandtherewasnobraindamage.Hiscoretemperaturehaddroppedto77degrees.Asamagician,Ithinkeverythingispossible.AndIthinkifsomethingisdonebyonepersonitcanbedonebyothers.Istartedtothink,iftheboycouldsurvivewithoutbreathingforthatlong,theremustbeawaythatIcoulddoit. 在1987年45，他的心脏温度降至77度。作为一个魔术师，我相信一切皆有可能。我认为如果某个人可以做到某件事，那么任何人都可以做到。我开始思索，如果这个男孩可以如此长时间不呼吸而活下来，那么必定有某种途 So,Imetwithatopneurosurgeon.AndIaskedhim,howlongisitpossibletogowithoutbreathing,likehowlongcouldIgowithoutair?Andhesaidtomethatanythingoversixminutesyouhaveaseriousriskofhypoxicbraindamage.So,Itookthatasachallenge,basically.(Laughter)Myfirsttry,IfiguredthatIcoulddosomethingsimilar,andIcreatedawatertank,andIfilleditwithiceandfreezingcoldwater.AndIstayedinsideofthatwatertankhopingmycoretemperaturewouldstarttodrop.AndIwasshivering.InmyfirstattempttoholdmybreathIcouldn'tevenlastaminute.So,Irealizedthatwascompletelynotgoingtowork. 6我的挑战。(笑声)第一次试验，我打算模拟那个男孩遭遇的情况，弄一个水缸，注满彻骨的冰水，然后就跳进那个水缸里，希望我的体温 So,Iwenttotalktoadoctorfriend,andIaskedhimhowcouldIdothat?"Iwanttoholdmybreathforareallylongtime.Howcoulditbedone?"Andhesaid,"David,you'reamagician,createtheillusionofnotbreathing,itwillbemucheasier."(Laughter)So,hecameupwiththisideaofcreatingarebreather,withaCO2scrubber,whichwasbasicallyatubefromHomeDepot,withaballoonduct-tapedtoit,thathethoughtwecouldputinsideofme,andsomehowbeabletocirculatetheairandrebreathewiththisthinginme.Thisisalittlehardtowatch.Butthisisthatattempt.So,thatclearlywasn'tgoingtowork.(Laughter) 便找了一位医生朋友，询问他我怎样才能屏气那么久，“我想在在水下长时间屏气。怎么样才可以做到呢?”我问他，他回答，“大卫，你是魔术师，设计一个不呼吸的假象岂不是更容易?”(笑声)他想出这么个点子，做一个内呼吸装置，内置一个CO2涤气器，其实基本上就是一个家用的管子，再套一个气球仅此而已。他认为可以把这个东西放到我身体里，然后用某种方式可以循环空气达到再呼吸的目的。他是这么把东西放进来的，这过程看起来会不太舒服...但那是一次尝试。好了，很显然它是不会起作用的。(笑声) ThenIactuallystartedthinkingaboutliquidbreathing.Thereisachemicalthat'scalledperflubron.Andit'ssohighinoxygenlevelsthatintheoryyoucouldbreatheit.So,Igotmyhandsonthatchemical,filledthesinkupwithit,andstuckmyfaceinthesinkandtriedtobreathethatin,whichwasreallyimpossible.It'sbasicallyliketryingtobreathe,asadoctorsaid,whilehavinganelephantstandingonyourchest.So,thatidea 接着我开始考虑试试液体呼吸。有一种叫全氟化合物的化学药剂，含氧量特别高，理论上你是可以用它来呼吸。于是我打算尝试这种化学试剂，将它灌满水缸，把脸浸在里面，试着呼吸。但那实在是不太可能，基本上就如医生所说，情况如同一头大象踩住你胸口的同时你还非得呼吸一样。这个法子看来也行不通。 ThenIstartedthinking,woulditbepossibletohookupaheart/lungbypassmachineandhaveasurgerywhereitwasatubegoingintomyartery,andthenappeartonotbreathewhiletheywereoxygenatingmyblood?Whichwasanotherinsaneidea,obviously.接着我想到，有没有可能在我的心脏和肺之间用机械搭桥，然后做手术把管子放入动脉，表面没有呼吸但事实上这些装备在为我的血液供氧? ThenIthoughtaboutthecraziestideaofalltheideas:toactuallydoit.(Laughter)Toactuallytrytoholdmybreathpastthepointthatdoctorswouldconsideryoubraindead.So,Istartedresearchingintopearldivers.Youknow,becausetheygodownforfourminutesononebreath.AndwhenIwasresearchingpearldivers,Ifoundtheworldoffree-diving.ItwasthemostamazingthingthatIeverdiscovered,prettymuch.Thereismanydifferentaspectstofree-diving.Thereisdepthrecords,wherepeoplegoasdeepastheycan.Andthenthereisstaticapnea.That'sholdingyourbreathaslongasyoucaninoneplacewithoutmoving.ThatwastheonethatIstudied. 后来，我想出了一个最疯狂的办法：那就是，真刀真枪的来。(笑声)去真正憋气至那一刻，那连医生都认为会脑死亡的时间。于是我开始搜集有关采珠人的信息。因为他们可以只用一口气便在水下待4分钟之久。而且当我在做采珠人调查时我发现了另一番洞天--自由潜水。它几乎可以说是我至今发现最奇妙的事。自由潜水有很多种，有深度记录的，人们可以潜到他们能达到的最大深度，还有静止屏气，就是能憋气多久就憋多久，但必须静止在一个固定的地方。那就是我调查的研究。 ThefirstthingthatIlearnediswhenyou'reholdingyourbreathyoushouldnevermoveatall;thatwastesenergy.Andthatdepletesoxygen,anditbuildsupCO2inyourblood.So,Ilearnednevertomove.AndIlearnedhowtoslowmyheartratedown.IhadtoremainperfectlystillandjustrelaxandthinkthatIwasn'tinmybody,andjustcontrolthat.AndthenIlearnedhowtopurge.Purgingisbasicallyhyperventilating.YoublowinandoutYoudothat,yougetlightheaded,yougettingling.Andyou'rereallyriddingyourbodyofCO2.So,whenyouholdyourbreathit'sinfinitelyeasier.ThenIlearnedthatyouhavetotakeahugebreath,andjustholdandrelaxandneverletanyairout,andjustholdandrelaxthroughallthepain. CO2持。然后我学了怎样净化呼吸，净化呼吸实际上就是强力呼吸。呼进CO2，接着，憋住，放松，别让一点儿空漏出去，憋着并放松着尝试忍过所有的痛 Everymorning,thisisformonths,IwouldwakeupandthefirstthingthatIwoulddoisIwouldholdmybreathfor,outof52minutes,Iwouldholdmybreathfor44minutes.So,basicallywhatthatmeansisIwouldpurge,I'dbreathreallyhardforaminute.AndIwouldhold,immediatelyafter,forfiveandhalfminutes.ThenIwouldbreathagainforaminute,purgingashardasIcan,thenimmediatelyafterthatIwouldholdagainforfiveandhalfminutes.Iwouldrepeatthisprocesseighttimesinarow.Outof52minutesyou'reonlybreathingforeightminutes.Attheendofthatyou'recompletelyfried,yourbrain.Youfeellikeyou'rewalkingaroundinadaze.Andyouhavetheseawfulheadaches.Basically,I'mnotthebestpersontotalktowhenI'mdoingthatstuff.5244558528得大脑快炸开了，就好像在一片耀眼中行走，头痛欲裂。似乎我属于 Istartedlearningabouttheworld-recordholder.HisnameisTomSietas.Andthisguyisperfectlybuiltforholdinghisbreath.He'ssixfootfour.He's160pounds.Andhistotallungcapacityistwicethesizeofanaverageperson.I'msixfootone,andfat.We'llsaybig-boned.(Laughter)Ihadtodrop50poundsinthreemonths.So,everythingthatIputintomybodyIconsideredasmedicine.Everybitoffoodwasexactlywhatitwasforitsnutritionalvalue.Iatereallysmallcontrolledportionsthroughouttheday.AndIstartedtoreallyadaptmybody.(Laughter) 了解到这个记录的保持者叫汤姆斯塔斯。这家伙就像是为屏气而生的64，16026150，渐渐的我开始保持很好的状态了。(笑声) ThethinnerIwas,thelongerIwasabletoholdmybreath.Andbyeatingsowellandtrainingsohard,myrestingheart-ratedroppedto38beatsperminute.WhichislowerthanmostOlympicathletes.InfourmonthsoftrainingIwasabletoholdmybreathforoversevenminutes.Iwantedtotryholdingmybreatheverywhere.IwantedtotryitinthemostextremesituationstoseeifIcouldslowmyheartratedownunderduress.(Laughter) 时间屏住呼吸。通过饮食控制搭配艰苦的训练，我的心率下降到每分钟38次，比多数奥林匹克选手都要低。在4个月的训练，我已经可以屏住呼吸长达7分钟之久。我在任何地方都训练屏气，尝试在极端的环境下屏气检验是否可能降低心率在如此高压下。(笑声) IdecidedthatIwasgoingtobreaktheworldrecordliveonprime-timetelevision.Theworldrecordwaseightminutesand58seconds,heldbyTomSietas,thatguywiththewhalelungsItoldyouabout.(Laughter)IassumedthatIcouldputawatertankatLincolncenterandifIstayedthereaweeknoteating,IwouldgetcomfortableinthatsituationandIwouldslowmymetabolism,whichIwassurewouldhelpmeholdmybreathlongerthanIhadbeenabletodoit.Iwascompletelywrong. 准备好要打破世界纪录，要在黄金时段的电视频道直播。当时的世界纪录是8分58秒，汤姆，斯塔斯始终保持，我告诉过你们那个家伙有鲸鱼一样大的肺。(笑声)我设想可以在林肯中心放一个巨型水缸然后我不吃饭在那里面先待一个礼拜，就会比较适应了，并且新陈代谢也会缓慢下来，我很肯定这样做可以帮我更长时间的屏住呼吸。显然我完全错 Ienteredthesphereaweekbeforethescheduledairdate.AndIthoughteverythingseemedtobeontrack.Twodaysbeforemybigbreathholdattempt,fortherecord,theproducersofmytelevisionspecialthoughtthatjustwatchingsomebodyholdingtheirbreath,andalmostdrowning,istooboringfortelevision.(Laughter)So,Ihadtoaddhandcuffs,whileholdingmybreath,toescapefrom.Thiswasacriticalmistake.BecauseofthemovementIwaswastingoxygen.AndbysevenminutesIhadgoneintotheseawfulconvulsions.By7:08Istartedtoblackout.Andbysevenminutesand30secondstheyhadtopullmybodyoutandbringmeback.Ihadfailedoneverylevel. 我提前一个礼拜去到中心，感觉一切都渐渐上了轨道，没想到的是，在破纪录憋气尝试的前两天，电视制作人突然觉得光看人憋气像是快要淹死对观众来说太过无聊。(笑声)于是我不得不加上手铐，边屏气边试着挣脱它们。这被证明是个极严重的错误。开始后我因为挣脱的动作浪费了很多氧气，到第7分钟我已经开始不住可怕的抽搐中™到7分08秒时，我开始失去知觉，7分30秒的时候他们必须把我拉出来进行抢救。我输的一塌糊涂。(笑声) So,naturally,theonlywayoutoftheslumpthatIcouldthinkofwas,IdecidedtocallOprah.(Laughter)ItoldherthatIwantedtouptheanteandholdmybreathlongerthananyhumanbeingeverhad.Thiswasadifferentrecord.ThiswasapureO2staticapnearecordthatGuinnesshadsettheworldrecordat13minutes.So,basicallyyoubreathpureO2first,oxygenatingyourbody,flushingoutCO2,andyouareabletoholdmuchlonger.Irealizedthatmyrealcompetitionwasthebeaver. 所以很自然唯一可以摆脱消沉我可以想到的就是去找奥普拉。(笑声)我告诉他我要提高赌注我要屏住呼吸长过所有人。这是个不同的记录，这次是纯氧静止屏气记录，由吉尼斯目前的13分钟为 InJanuaryof'08Oprahgavemefourmonthstoprepareandtrain.So,Iwouldsleepinahypoxictenteverynight.Ahypoxictentisatentthatsimulatesaltitudeat15,000feet.So,it'slikebasecampEverest.Whatthatdoesis,youstartbuildinguptheredbloodcellcountinyourbody,whichhelpsyoucarryoxygenbetter.Everymorning,again,aftergettingoutofthattentyourbrainiscompletelywipedout.MyfirstattemptonpureO2,Iwasabletogoupto15minutes.So,itwasaprettybigsuccess. 2019年1月奥普拉给了我4个月准备和训练。我每晚睡在低氧舱里，所谓低氧舱就是模拟海拔15000尺的含氧量，跟终极野营似的。这么做的原因是，可以累积体内红细胞的数目，帮助你更好的保存氧气。每个早晨，同样的，从低氧舱里出来时大脑一片空白。第一次尝试纯氧时，我已经可以屏气15分钟。这已经 Theneurosurgeonpulledmeoutofthewaterbecauseinhismind,at15minutesyourbrainisdone,you'rebraindead.So,hepulledmeup,andIwasfine.Therewasonepersontherethatwasdefinitelynotimpressed.Itwasmyex-girlfriend.WhileIwasbreakingtherecordunderwaterforthefirsttime,shewassiftingthroughmyBlackberry,checkingallmymessages.(Laughter)Mybrotherhadapictureofit.Itisreally...(Laughter) 相当震惊--在他看来，15分钟不呼吸你的大脑就完了，脑死亡--可是当他把我拉出来，我却状态良好，当时肯定有一个人是觉得没什么大不了，就是我的前女友。当我在水下第一次打破纪录时，她却在翻我的黑莓手机，检查我所有的短信。(笑声)我哥哥拍了张当时的照片。那真的是...(笑声) IthenannouncedthatIwasgoingtogoforSietas'record,publicly.Andwhathedidinresponse,ishewentonRegisandKelly,andbrokehisoldrecord.Thenhismaincompetitorwentoutandbrokehisrecord.So,hesuddenlypushedtherecordupto16minutesand32seconds.WhichwasthreeminuteslongerthanIhadprepared.Youknow,itwaslongerthantherecord. 终于我宣布公开挑战斯塔斯的记录，他所做的回应，就是在Regisandkelly节目中，自己打破他以前的记录。然后他的主要竞争者又出来，并再次打破记录。这样，记录离奇被提到16323Now,IwantedtogettheScienceTimestodocumentthis.Iwantedtogetthemtodoapieceonit.So,Ididwhatanypersonseriouslypursuingscientificadvancementwoulddo.IwalkedintotheNewYorkTimesofficesanddidcardtrickstoeverybody.(Laughter)So,Idon'tknowifitwasthemagicortheloreoftheCaymanislands,butJohnTierneyflewdowndidapieceontheseriousnessofbreath-holding. 任何一个严谨探索科学的人都该做的事，我走进纽约时报的办公室给WhilehewasthereItriedtoimpresshim,ofcourse.AndIdidadivedownto160feet,whichisbasicallytheheightofa16storybuilding,andasIwascomingup,Iblackedoutunderwater,whichisreallydangerous;that'showyoudrown.LuckilyKirkhadseenmeandheswamoverandpulledmeup.So,Istartedfullfocus.IcompletelytrainedtogetmybreathholdtimeupforwhatIneededtodo.Buttherewasnowaytoprepareforthelivetelevisionaspectofit,beingonOprah. 那儿的时候，我试图给他深刻印象于是我猛地下潜了160尺，大概有16层楼那么高，可我在上浮过程中，昏了过去，那是相当危险的。那就是人们如何溺水的。幸运的是克尔克看到我他游过去把我救了上来。这下我开始全神贯注了。我彻底严格的训练延长屏气时间，做我该做的事。但不可能完全按照将电视直播的方式而准备，也就是那个奥普拉的 Butinpractice,Iwoulddoitfacedown,floatingonthepool.ButforTVtheywantedmetobeuprightsotheycouldseemyface,basically.Theotherproblemwasthesuitwassobuoyantthattheyhadtostrapmyfeetintokeepmefromfloatingup.So,Ihadtousemylegstoholdmyfeetintothestrapsthatwereloose,whichwasarealproblemforme.Thatmademeextremelynervous,raisingtheheartrate. 会面朝下，悬浮在水缸中，但上电视时，他们却希望我面朝前，以便观众看见我的脸。另一个问题是，那身衣服让我易悬浮，所以他们不得不用皮带绑住我的脚保持我不至上浮，同时我得用双腿帮助脚站稳在那个松松的皮带里面，那对我来说是非常头疼的事，因为它导致我极度紧张，提高了心率。 Then,whattheyalsodidwas,whichweneverdidbefore,istherewasaheart-ratemonitor.Anditwasrightnexttothesphere.So,everytimemyheartwouldbeatI'dhearthebeep-beep-beep-beep,youknow,theticking,reallyloud.Whichwasmakingmemorenervous.Andthereisnowaytoslowmyheartratedown.So,normallyIwouldstartat38beatsperminute,andwhileholdingmybreathitwoulddropto12beatsperminute,whichisprettyunusual.(Laughter)Thistimeitstartedat120beats,anditneverwentdown. 们还装了，我以前从未试过的，就是装了一个心率监测器它就在放置在我的球型水缸旁边，所以，每一次我心跳动时，都会听到哔哔的声音。你知道，那个声音，非常吵。它导致我更加紧张。而且我竟然没有办法去降低心率。一般情况下我的心率是每分钟38次，而且当我屏住呼吸时它会降到每分钟12次，这是可是很不寻常的。(笑声)这一次，它却以每分钟120次作为开始，再也没有降下去。 Ispentthefirstfiveminutesunderwaterdesperatelytryingtoslowmyheartratedown.Iwasjustsittingtherethinking,"I'vegottoslowthisdown.I'mgoingtofail,I'mgoingtofail."AndIwasgettingmorenervous.Andtheheartratejustkeptgoingupandup,allthewayupto150beats.Basicallyit'sthesamethingthatcreatedmydownfallatLincolnCenter.ItwasawasteofO2.WhenImadeittothehalfwaymark,ateightminutes,Iwas100percentcertainthatIwasnotgoingtobeabletomakethis.Therewasnowayformetodoit. 5150其实就是出现了和伦敦中心失败时一样的情况，心跳过快浪费氧气.当8 So,Ifigured,Oprahhaddedicatedanhourtodoingthisbreathholdthing,ifIhadcrackedearlyitwouldbeawholeshowabouthowdepressedIam.(Laughter)So,IfiguredI'mbetteroffjustfightingandstayingthereuntilIblackout,atleastthentheycanpullmeoutandtakecareofmeandallthat.(Laughter) 来做这个水下屏气的节目。如果我早早失败了它就会变成一个描述我失败后如何沮丧的节目。(笑声)所以，我发现我还是最好强撑着，直到昏过去，至少这样他们可以先把我拉出来再抢救什么的。(笑声) keptpushingto10minutes.At10minutesyoustartgettingallthesereallystrongtinglingsensationsinyourfingersandtoes.AndIknewthatthatwasbloodshunting,whenthebloodrushesawayfromyourextremitiestoprovideoxygentoyourvitalorgans.At11minutesIstartedfeelingthrobbingsensationsinmylegs,andmylipsstartedtofeelreally 我一直坚持到10分钟，在第十分钟时我开始有这种非常强烈的手指和脚趾镇痛的感觉。我知道那是血液分流，也就是血液从肢端回流去为重要的器官供氧。在第11分钟，我开始感到腿部的抽搐感，而且嘴唇感觉奇怪。 Atminute12Istartedtohaveringinginmyears,andIstartedtofeelmyarmgoingnumb.AndI'mahypochondriac,andIrememberarmnumbmeansheartattack.So,Istartedtoreallygetreallyparanoid.Thenat13minutes,maybebecauseofthehypochondria.Istartedfeelingpainsallovermychest.Itwasawful.At14minutes,Ihadtheseawfulcontractions,likethisurgetobreathe.(Laughter) 钟我开始耳鸣，而且胳膊开始麻木。我是个忧郁症患者，我记起任何的麻木意味着心脏病。于是我开始恐慌起来。然后在第13分钟，可能由于忧郁症，我感到胸前巨痛。太难受了。在第14分钟，我有一种强烈的欲望，想要呼吸的欲望。(笑声) At15minutesIwassufferingmajorO2deprivationtotheheart.AndIstartedhavingischemiatotheheart.Myheartbeatwouldgofrom120,to50,to150,to40,to20,to150again.Itwouldskipabeat.Itwouldstart.Itwouldstop.AndIfeltallthis.AndIwassurethatIwasgoingtohaveaheartattack.So,at16minuteswhatIdidisIslidmyfeetoutbecauseIknewthatifIdidgoout,ifIdidhaveaheartattack,they'dhavetojumpintothebindingandtakemyfeetoutbeforepullingmeup.So,Iwasreallynervous. 在第15分钟，我遭受心脏缺氧的症状，心脏开始供血不足，心率从120，下降到50，又从150到40，20，又到150.它会忽然停跳一拍，时而开始，时而停止。而且我能感受到这发生的一切我很确定我快要心脏病了。于是在第16分钟，我把脚滑出扣带因为我知道如果我确实要离开水面，或是